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Sundance Interview: 'Ain't Them Bodies Saints' Director David Lowery Explains Making More Accessible Movies and Why He Can't Stop Editing Them

Photo of Eric Kohn By Eric Kohn | Indiewire January 20, 2013 at 1:12PM

Unless you've been traveling the U.S. film festival circuit in recent years, chances are strong you haven't heard of David Lowery. The Dallas-based filmmaker's 2009 feature-length debut "St. Nick," a nearly dialogue-free story of two young children in adventuring across an empty landscape, premiered at the SXSW Film Festival but never received a wide release. But Lowery's credits extend much deeper into the fabric of the American independent film community: As an editor, his credits include recent festival hits "Bad Fever" and "Sun Don't Shine" in addition to Shane Carruth's highly anticipated "Upstream Color," premiering this week at the Sundance Film Festival.
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David Lowery / IW, 400

Unless you've been traveling the U.S. film festival circuit in recent years, chances are strong you haven't heard of David Lowery. The Dallas-based filmmaker's 2009 feature-length debut "St. Nick," a nearly dialogue-free story of two young children adventuring across an empty landscape, premiered at the SXSW Film Festival but never received a wide release. But Lowery's credits extend much deeper into the fabric of the American independent film community: As an editor, his credits include recent festival hits "Bad Fever" and "Sun Don't Shine," in addition to Shane Carruth's highly anticipated "Upstream Color," premiering this week at the Sundance Film Festival.

But that's not the only reason Lowery's at the festival this year: His own competition feature, "Ain't Them Bodies Saints," premieres Sunday in the wake of major buzz. Starring Rooney Mara and Casey Affleck, the outlaw tale revolves around a couple on the lam. In terms of exposure, it's a huge leap from when Lowery came to Sundance in 2011 with his short film "Pioneer." Now his name is all over the festival -- not only for his credits on "Ain't Them Bodies Saints" and "Upstream Color," but also as a co-writer of "Pit Stop," premiering in the festival's Next section. Less than 24 hours before the premiere of "Ain't Them Bodies Saints," a movie he scrambled to finish just days before the festival, Lowery talked about his rapid progression and how his latest achievement connects to his previous films.

How did you go from working on microbudget features and short films to a $6 million production with stars in less than two years?

In 2011, when I was here with "Pioneer," I had the first draft of the script done. I had written the first draft in the previous months. I was planning on making it very low-budget for half a million and very under the radar. After we played at Sundance with "Pioneer," [Lowery's longtime producers] James [M. Johnson] and Toby [Halbrooks] had the opportunity to apply to the Sundance Producers Fellowship. So they applied with the script and got in over the course of four months. It went from being this little under-half-a-million-dollar movie we were trying to raise money for to being something that people were paying attention to in a much larger context. James and Toby met Lars Knudsen, our producer, at the Producers Labs. From there, they signed on as executive producers and wanted to help push the project to the next level.

READ MORE: Sundance 2013: 'Ain't Them Bodies Saints' Producers Receive the $10K Indian Paintbrush Producer's Award

That took place over the course of 2011. In winter of 2012, I came to Sundance for the writers lab. At that point, Craig Kestel at WME had read the script and asked if he could send it out to some actors who might be interested. My whole modus operandi was that I wasn't going to wait with this movie. I knew how to make it and had a plan, but if we could do it on a bigger level, let's go for it. He sent it out to other folks at the agency and very quickly there was a response. So by the time I was at Sundance last year, I had meetings set up with several actors in L.A. shortly afterwards. Rooney Mara was the only actress I met with. Casey Affleck was the first actor I met with. I had a gut instinct of who would be perfect for these roles. It was those actors. Luckily for me, they said yes. It became what it is very quickly -- from Sundance last year until now.

Why do you think these actors were interested in this project?

If you can show 15 minutes of people talking in a room and people find it intriguing, that's something.

I was confounded. I made "St. Nick" on a 30-page outline. "Aint' Them Bodies Saints" was a full-bodied script, but it still had a lot of room for improvisation. There were scenes that weren't there on the page -- just a sentence saying something happens. I was like, "We'll figure this out when we shoot it." I was very surprised to a certain extent that they responded to it as much as they did. But what helped was that we sent the script out with "Pioneer." When folks could read the script and watch that movie, I think it really helped contextualize the film we wanted to make. I think there's a real delineation between "St. Nick" to "Pioneer" to this film. It's very clear what we're coming from with this project. The actors really responded both to the script as a piece of raw material that could be developed and also to "Pioneer," which represented the fruition of what myself and my partners helped develop. When you've made a $12,000 feature, people are like, "Well, that's great," but it's hard to justify taking that risk. Because it is a risk. "Pioneer" helped make this a safer chance. If you can show 15 minutes of people talking in a room and people find it intriguing, that's something.

Was it surreal when you started shooting the new movie and realized how much bigger a production it was compared to your previous work?

Very much so. With "St. Nick" and "Pioneer," I'd go pick up the equipment myself. I'd place the orders. With "Ain't Them Bodies Saints," I didn't have to worry about any of that, which was very disconcerting on the one hand, because I'm used to knowing every facet of my production since I'm the one paying for it all -- myself and my partners. In this case, I was afforded the luxury of not having to pay or worry about it. On the first day, the set was full of trucks: the prop truck, the camera truck. It was sort of breathtaking at first because all these people are there to service your vision. Within about 20 minutes, you're called away to the set with the cameras being set up and you say where you want the camera set up, and you talk to the actors. At that point, all of a sudden, it's like all those elements of the machine of motion picture production faded away. Once again, it became about lens, actors and what they're saying on camera. The budget just vanished at that point. It became like "Pioneer" or "St. Nick." It felt exactly like every movie we made in the past.

I certainly didn't want to dive into commercialism appealing to the lowest common denominator.
At the same time, "St. Nick" was clearly not a movie made with commercial intentions. "Ain't Them Bodies Saints" seems to reflect broader intentions.

Absolutely. I think, with "St. Nick," when you're working with a smaller budget you have fewer risks involved. You're able to take chances with style and content. But I was still learning and trying to figure out what I wanted to do as a filmmaker. It was easy for me to grab onto these concepts of formalism and cinema as a voice unto itself. I wanted to utilize that to the max. We got a grant to make the movie that was supposed to go towards the larger production costs, but it would end up being the entire budget. It was a pittance. I feel comfortable making films at that budget level. It was an immensely satisfying experience. After having made it, I felt like I've done this film where the audience has to meet me three-quarters of the way, which is satisfying on the one hand but also frustrating because you automatically exclude some people. There's always going to be the person who doesn't want to go that distance. I felt the opportunity was there to make a film that has the same degree of integrity but also embraces the audience. I certainly didn't want to dive into commercialism appealing to the lowest common denominator. But I wanted to go to a crowded movie theater and watch this film and sit back and enjoy it with an audience caught up in it. As an audience member I like having to do work but I also like being taken on a ride, so I wanted to find the common ground between those two modes. I hope it feels like a film people have seen before but they've never seen this way.

So how would you categorize it?

All throughout the pre-production process we were batting around a very small number of terms. We called it a drama, a melodrama, a thriller. We have all of those elements. "Drama" has unfortunately become a dirty word. I resent the market for doing that. Dramas are incredibly compelling. I feel like "Silver Linings Playbook" is a drama but because it's funny people market it as a comedy. I'm not a huge fan of "Flight" but that movie was an adult movie made on a budget. I hope studios acknowledge that because it's the type of film I want to see and I think audiences are willing to go for that. Hollywood is able to make these films responsibly and define that box office mentality. I don't know how this movie will be sold. I've seen a rough cut of the trailer that contains every single gunshot to make it look like an action movie. But ultimately it's a love story, a drama, a movie about adults reconciling very adult decisions. It's hard to boil that down to a single sentence. It might be ultimately described as a thriller. But it's also a romance, which is hard to define in the marketplace.

This article is related to: Sundance Film Festival, Ain't Them Bodies Saints, David Lowery, Rooney Mara, Casey Affleck







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